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Cannabis Yields And Dosage

Cannabis Yields And Dosage by Chris Conrad
Cannabis Yields And Dosage is the authoritative study of the science and legalities of calculating medical marijuana. By Chris Conrad
 
Home arrow Court Reports arrow Bryan Epis arrow Epis Testifies On Marijuana Sale:
Epis Testifies On Marijuana Sale: PDF Print E-mail
Written by Vanessa Nelson   
Friday, September 07 2007
Some Names Given, Some Withheld

SACRAMENTO, CA – When Bryan Epis took the witness stand last June, he seemed anxious. The medical marijuana defendant had a mild stutter that was uncharacteristic, and he even misspelled his own name for the court reporter. Observers figured it was just a case of the jitters, or the stress of the years of prosecution and incarceration taking their toll on his composure. They may have been right, but that wasn’t the whole story.
The truth was that Epis had something else to be nervous about – he was taking the stand to try to save his own skin, and to do so he planned to testify about the illegal activities of his friends. This wasn’t what was expected from the man who had become the king of martyrdom in the medical marijuana community, and observers watched with shock as their hero inched closer and closer to what many would call “snitching.” Would he accomplish the delicate feat of placating the prosecution without revealing too much about his acquaintances? Whatever the outcome, it was a gutsy move.

Bryan Epis photo by Tim Castleman
Bryan Epis photo by Tim Castleman
For those who are confused about why Epis was on the witness stand in the first place, this story needs some background. Plagued by ever-shifting court dates and bereft of media coverage during the past couple years, the Epis case has gone from cause célèbre to relative obscurity. His face was once plastered on billboards and smiled out from the front pages of newspapers, but lately it seems that there are more questions than answers about what’s going on in the Epis case. Even the most avid supporters have found that the trail went cold a long time ago.

In spite of being a medical marijuana patient and caregiver in compliance with California law, Epis was busted in 1997 for a grow in the basement of his Chico home. The plant total was less than five hundred, most of which were seedlings. His case was quickly taken over by federal authorities and Epis was charged with criminal cultivation of over a hundred marijuana plants.

Although medical marijuana was legalized by California voters the year before Epis’s bust, prosecution in federal court deprived him of a medical defense. The U.S. Attorney maintained that, in spite of the changes to state law, marijuana still remained illegal on the federal level. This claim rested on the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, which has been widely criticized as Constitutionally unsound, but the prosecutors got their way nonetheless. As the case neared trial in 2002, it became clear that all evidence about medical marijuana and its legality under state law would be excluded.

The U.S. Attorney initially offered Epis a plea deal for four years in prison, and when he refused, prosecutors tacked on a charge for conspiracy to cultivate over 1000 marijuana plants. To support this charge, the prosecutors whipped out spreadsheets that were purported to show Epis’s plans to set up collective marijuana grows in various locations. All of a sudden, the defendant was being portrayed as an ambitiously greedy money-monger intent on overgrowing the entire state.

From there, things continued to go downhill. Epis went to trial at the Sacramento federal courthouse in 2002, facing a cultivation count and a conspiracy count. The trial began with a charge of jury tampering, which stemmed from medical marijuana protesters gathering near the courthouse and distributing leaflets containing case-specific information about Epis. The trial ended with convictions, followed up by a sentencing hearing that was a shock to the activist community. U.S. District Judge Frank C. Damrell, Jr., sentenced Epis to a decade of incarceration, and he served slightly over two years in prison before being released pending appeal in August 2004.

Brenda Grantland photo by Tim Castleman
Brenda Grantland photo by Tim Castleman
Epis’s appeal cites prosecutorial misconduct, claiming that the government deliberately submitted partial evidence for some exhibits. By presenting only small portions of each spreadsheet, the defense maintains, prosecutors intentionally misconstrued which documents applied to which locations. Defense attorney Brenda Grantland was also met with a devastating surprise from the government in December 2005 – U.S. Attorney Samuel Wong admitted that much of the case evidence had been mistakenly destroyed. Given this unusual turn of events, it became a bigger challenge for Grantland to make her case, but the intrepid attorney has persisted nonetheless.

Midway through the appeal, the case was sent back to the district court for re-sentencing proceedings, which began almost immediately after the Supreme Court ruled against medical marijuana patients in Raich v. Gonzales. This time, there was serious debate over whether Epis would qualify for a safety valve, and the spreadsheets emerged from ancient history with a new significance.

Epis, for his part, argues that the spreadsheets presented at trial never applied to his Chico operation. It sounds like nit-picking, but the question of what applied to Chico has been a crucial issue that has stood to affect his sentencing. Since the Chico location was within a thousand feet of a school, Epis was initially disqualified from consideration for a safety valve that would allow the judge to sentence below the mandatory minimum ten years. In an effort to avoid having to serve out the remainder of his sentence, Epis hoped for safety valve eligibility by convincing the judge that the evidence used to secure his conviction had nothing to do with Chico.

Epis began this fight by asserting in a November 2005 debriefing hearing that the spreadsheets did not apply to the Chico grow. According to Epis, the documents were like a mathematical contemplation of starting collectives elsewhere in California – Silicon Valley and Newhall, specifically. The government has staunchly opposed the statement that the spreadsheet was not about Chico, and U.S. Attorney Wong has spent the majority of the past year trying to demonstrate Epis’s claim to be a lie.

In many ways, the process has taken on a life of its own. Proving Epis lied under oath became an obsessive campaign for Wong, who pressed forward with a series of hearings that spanned several months and required multiple witnesses. The final person to take the stand in these hearings was Epis himself, who was sworn in on June 22nd, 2007, and thereby exposed himself to extensive questioning about his documents.

His purpose was to address issues raised during proceedings held last February. At that time, Wong presented an audio recording of the November 2005 debriefing hearing at which Epis declared that the spreadsheets in evidence did not apply to his Chico operation. After playing the tape, Wong attempted to disprove Epis’s statement by pointing out details in the spreadsheet that he believed applied to the Chico grow.

However, the prosecutor didn’t get very far with his assertions about the spreadsheets, and even the law enforcement witnesses he brought to the stand said that the plant numbers indicated on the document far exceeded the capacity of the Chico site. If Epis had meant for the spreadsheets to apply to Chico, which was never solidly shown, it was no more than an overly optimistic daydream.

Once on the witness stand, Epis maintained that he made these proposals for sites in Silicon Valley and for Newhall, but not for Chico. Like many of his plans, however, the projections from his spreadsheets never even came close to being fulfilled. “At the time, I thought of opening a dispensary in San Jose. I took a few steps towards it, but never followed through,” Epis explained. “I abandoned the plans because of law school, making a hotel website, watching my daughter, learning programs, going to the Chico dispensary and helping out there.”

He insisted he did not make a document like this for Chico because his former partner David Kasakove “wanted to run the whole show.”

Defense Attorney Brenda Grantland took the time to question her client about the figures in the documents and their basis in reality. Soon, their fantastical qualities began to become apparent.

“Where did you get the figures for the spreadsheet?” the attorney asked.

Epis shrugged, “Just out of the blue one day.”

Grantland continued, “How did you get a starting figure?”

“The whole movement was just starting,” Epis said, referencing the era directly following the legalization of medical marijuana in California. “Everything was in its infancy. It was fledgling, so there was no data to base these numbers on.”

The defense attorney got more specific. “Why did you start with twenty members?”

Epis had nothing to give. “It was just a good starting figure.”

Her client was vague, but Grantland persisted. “Why does it double every month?”

“I think that’s just a function,” Epis speculated, making an attempt to describe how the spreadsheet program works. “The cells don’t actually have numbers in them. It’s just the value of the last cell times two, all the way down. This is the way to get it done faster.”

Wong then broke in, objecting on the grounds that the witness was guessing. Judge Damrell, however, didn’t agree with the prosecutor, and decided to allow the testimony because it described Epis’s habit. Once this matter was resolved, Grantland turned back to her client. “Why was it not important for it to be accurate?”

“It was still in its rough stage,” Epis responded. “It was just a draft.”

As expected, Wong pushed much harder on the subject of the spreadsheet figures. The prosecutor directed attention back to the fact that the document began with an assumption of twenty members. “I never opened there, but I thought that I would immediately have twenty members,” Epis explained. “I’m one of those people who thinks they can do everything with not a lot of time. I had a lot to do, and it never happened. Maybe I’m glad it didn’t happen.”

Wong wasn’t satisfied, pointing to the exponential increases in members shown on the spreadsheet. “Doesn’t your proposal show the hopes and dreams of distributing marijuana statewide?”

“Tcht – no!” Epis snorted. “I wasn’t going statewide. I was just thinking of going to Silicon Valley. I was fed up with Dave,” he explained, again referencing former partner David Kasakove.

With a flourish, Wong turned on the courtroom projector to display a document filled with squiggles and a few lines of double-digit addition. Epis took one look at the screen and broke into laughter. “I was doodling one day, scribbling all over the place,” he told the prosecutor. When Wong tried to describe the document as a compensation plan, Epis balked. “It’s a theoretical thing that no one should have to be questioned about,” he said plainly.

Grantland then issued an objection, reminding the judge that the hearing was simply about whether her client lied during debriefing. Judge Damrell agreed. “Let’s get to the issues,” he said to Wong. “We already tried this case once.”

Wong may not have made much headway when addressing the spreadsheets, but during last February’s hearing he put forth a convincing argument that Epis had lied about another matter during the 2005 debriefing. On tape, Epis claimed that he never had a contract to supply a San Francisco medical marijuana dispensary operated by Dennis Peron. The prosecutor then presented a document that was attached to the door of Epis’s Chico grow operation during his 1997 bust. “Do not enter this facility,” it reads. “I, Bryan Epis, am the designated primary caregiver to the CCC of San Francisco as well as other clubs. Call Dennis Peron to verify.”

Epis, however, contends that this is no evidence of a contract. In fact, he claims that the sign is a misleading document because he never actually supplied any of his marijuana to the dispensary. He testified to accompanying another supplier, Keith Dusek, to the club in order to sell marijuana that was in Dusek’s possession. At that time, Epis said, there was vague talk about his Chico grow supplying the dispensary, but it all quickly crumbled over disputes about pricing. These disputes led to the creation of other documents submitted by the prosecution – several angry letters Epis wrote to Peron, claiming the dispensary operator had “broken our contract” by selling the marijuana at too high of a price. In spite of this souring, Epis never took down the premature sign on the door of his grow-room that declared he was supplying Peron.

On the stand, Epis claimed he was simply too busy to bother with taking down the sign. He referred back to the long list of interests and pursuits that he recited earlier in his testimony. In that whirlwind of activities, Epis insisted, there was not a spare second to deal with removing hanging documents. “It would have taken 30 seconds to do it,” Epis shrugged during his explanation. “I didn’t have it.”

The prosecutor, of course, wasn’t buying it, and Wong grilled Epis on every detail of the trip he took with Dusek to sell marijuana at the San Francisco dispensary. On the stand, Epis repeatedly stated that this selling trip occurred on only one occasion, and that the marijuana in question was not his because he had not yet harvested his first crop at that time. He also made it clear that he was not actually selling, but rather acting as a sort of a matchmaker between the buyer and seller. “I was helping other people sell their weed,” was Epis’s description. “I was helping people put it through legal channels rather than putting it onto the black market.”

Continuing to describe himself as a “middleman” and a “transaction conductor,” Epis restated his characterization multiple times. As the hearing went on, he portrayed his role with increasingly passive language. “I was helping the weed to be sold to a legal place,” Epis said at one point. “I was there at a time when medical marijuana was sold at the club.”

According to Epis, the trip to San Francisco with Dusek was on January 24th, 1997. It started with an oil change at Jiffy Lube and ended with the sale of a half-pound of marijuana to Peron. Wong claimed that something else happened during this visit, alleging that Epis made a contract to personally supply Peron with marijuana in the future. The prosecutor presented an exhibit that had been entered into evidence, quoting a letter written by Epis. “‘But what about the contract on January 24th, that I entered into with the Cannabis Cultivators Club? Are you telling me that you are going to breach this contract?’” Wong read from the letter, then turned to Epis on the stand. “Who were the parties in this contract?”

“There never was a contract because he kept giving counteroffers,” Epis claimed. “There wasn’t a contract. We never got things squared away.”

“Did you shake hands on this deal?” Wong probed.

“I guess I did,” Epis conceded, but after a moment’s reflection again stated that he never actually sold marijuana.

Judge Damrell turned towards the witness stand. “Did he hand money to you?” he asked simply.

Epis, however, didn’t know. “Either to me or Keith,” he replied.

The prosecutor directed the witness’s attention back to the wording of the letter, asking him why he would refer to a contract if no contract had been made. “I thought we were coming to an agreement at first,” Epis offered. “I was pretty much just ranting and raving. I never sent this to him, obviously.”

Wong then clarified whether Epis had been in law school at the time, and when the prosecutor got confirmation, he quickly made his point. “Did you take contract classes?” Wong asked. Epis admitted that he did, leaving the general impression that he might have a clearer understanding of the contract process than he was letting on.

His confidence increasing, Wong pointed out another line penned by Epis that used the term “my medicine” and described how he didn’t want it being sold for Peron’s “rip-off prices.” The prosecutor then looked up from the paper, asking what was meant by “my medicine.” When Epis responded that medicine was marijuana, the prosecutor sought further clarification. “And the word ‘my’ – does this mean it was yours?”

Epis was blunt, “No.”

Wong turned condescending in his pursuit of an admission. “What does the word ‘my’ usually mean?”

“Well, me,” Epis responded, adding the usual clarification, “but I was just helping people bring marijuana in because they didn’t know who to sell it to.”

“But you wrote that you wanted the prices lowered,” the prosecutor argued. “So what did you mean by ‘our contract?’”

“I was thinking of working with him at the time, but right after that, it was like – Peron? Forget him! I’m going to do my own thing,” Epis said, beginning to get colorful. “I keep using the word ‘contract,’ but I was just mad at him.”

The prosecutor worked through the figures some more before performing his last attempt to trick Epis into admitting there had been an actual contract for future sales. “Did you feel good that they wanted to buy more marijuana from you?” Wong asked, referring to Peron’s club.

“I wouldn’t say it was from me,” Epis made the distinction yet again. “I wanted to help them help others by lowering the price, but things were changing right after that and it was pretty much the same day that I said, ‘I’m not going to do this.’ It was the last time I went to that club. I started my own place.”

The prosecutor wasn’t going to get much more from the witness – Epis blocked him at every move with a restatement of the same explanation. Wong did, however, seek to get the most out of the questioning and tried to get Epis to connect Dusek with the Chico growsite. The prosecutor did his best, but Epis flatly denied that Dusek helped with the Chico grow. There was just one problem with that statement – Epis had previously testified under oath that Dusek had hung the mylar wall coverings in his basement grow-room.

When asked about his previous testimony, Epis was vague. He said that he gave that statement because he had been told that Dusek’s fingerprints were found on the mylar. Although he didn’t recall specifically, Epis deduced that Dusek had either hung the mylar or he had touched it when he visited the Epis home with his friend Wayne in 1994.

Wong pounced on the name, “Who is Wayne?”

“A guy I used to buy cannabis from,” Epis responded.

The prosecutor demanded a last name, but Epis claimed he couldn’t remember it. Wong was incredulous, “You can remember showing him your grow room 13 years ago, but you can’t remember his name?”

Squinting his eyes, Epis acted as though he was trying to peer into his memory. “Justman, Hudson, I don’t know,” he said. “I tried to look it up once.”

Epis seemed to be toying with the prosecutor now, and he did so with a calm, confident ease. The stutter had long since evaporated, and a more genuine side of his personality was shining. His vague evasions had transformed into cheeky retorts, and by the end of the afternoon the man who stepped down from the stand appeared quite self-assured.

Did he navigate the waters of the snitch without becoming one himself? It’s a subjective determination, open to various degrees of interpretation depending upon opinion. Public reaction is likely to be mixed, but it certainly makes a great deal of difference that the statute of limitations has already passed on these crimes.

As for the defense attorney, she emerged from the hearing optimistic. Grantland acknowledged the risks her client had taken, but also stated a belief that there would be no negative impact. “In the minds of the feds, what Bryan admitted today would be aiding and abetting the distribution of marijuana – a crime he has never been charged with,” the defense attorney explained. “The statute of limitations has passed, but it would be relevant conduct which could be used to enhance his sentence under the guidelines, if he hadn’t already been subjected to a much harsher sentence under the mandatory minimum.”

Her parting message was one of hope. “My impression was that Bryan’s candidness today greatly enhanced his credibility with the judge, who – I hope – after ten years has begun to realize he is dealing with an honest man, trying to do the right thing to help sick people, legally.”

Bryan Epis’s resentencing hearing is scheduled for 10am on September 14th, 2007, in Courtroom 2 (15th Floor) of 501 I Street in Sacramento, CA.

Bryan Epis with his girlfriend, attorney and supporters in front of Sacramento federal court building photo by Tim Castleman
Bryan Epis with his girlfriend, attorney and supporters in front of Sacramento federal court building photo by Tim Castleman

  Comments (19)
Modifed Version - Didn\'t Snithch on a
Written by Bryan Epis, on 2007-09-15 14:11:04
The first two paragraphs of this article look like they were written by the prosecutor, Samuel Wong himself. I did not snitch on anyone, nor could I, because the statute of limitations ran at 5 years. Plus these people testified at my trial as to what they did. People should get their story straight before writing a complex story, especially of they weren't at my trial, and didn't read the transcripts. The reason why my name and face isn't on billboards all over the place right now is because that costs a lot of money, and plus I'm out of prison right now. The reason why my courtroom isn't packed every time (which I guess is a requirement so that my case hasn't gone into "obsurity") is because the government keeps changing the dates, and people have gotten tired of hearing something is going to happen, only for it to be cancelled at the last minute. I also don't have people paying to defend me, which would free up money for publicity campaigns, like Ed Rosenthal did. By writing what I've written so far, I've only responded to the first two paragraphs. I have to read this story further and will comment on every piece of misinformation in it. I will also have the people I supposedly snitched on read this story, and both of the ones that are still alive will comment on it as well.
Please do read the whole story
Written by Tim Castleman, on 2007-09-15 14:17:23
I sincerely hope Bryan and his friends do read the whole story and visit often to comment again. Thanks for participating, and remember we only delete comments that violate these 3 simple rules: 
* Please keep the topic of messages relevant to the subject of the article. 
* Personal verbal attacks will be deleted. 
* Please don't use comments to plug your web site. Such material will be removed.
2nd response to labeling me as snitch
Written by Bryan Epis, on 2007-09-15 15:00:28
This is a second response to this article:  
 
I didn't request to have a "debriefing" but that is one of the things a prosecutor does in trying to stop someone from getting the 5C1.2 safety valve (see http://www.ussc.gov/2003guid/5c1_2.htm) One of the things the person does is to tell the story of what happend. It is one of things that is required of the 5C1.2 safety valve (see 5C1.2(a)(5). I don't think Ed Rosenthal had to do one, and I assume that is because either George Bevan didn't ask for this debriefing, or if he did, the judge skirted around the requirement, I assume by saying that Rosenthal had told the story through defense memorandums.  
 
I would NOT have done a 5C1.2 safety valve debriefing if there would have been a chance that anyone else would be proesecuted as a result of it. I sat there for 5 years, refusing to divulge anyone else's name. The first day I was arrested back in 1997 I was offered to be let out immediately if I would help bring others down. Instead I took all the heat myself and had to come up with a $500,000 bail. 
 
These people that I supposedly snitched on actually testified in my case, as a diligent reporter would discover upon reading the trial transcript.  
 
I was not in a 5K1.1 hearing (see http://www.ussc.gov/2001guid/5k1_1.htm) (where I would get a reduced sentence for snitching on someone), like that guy in Ed Rosenthal's case got. Other than the safety valve based on not being a supervisor, not having a gun, not having a prior criminal history, and telling all the facts about the case in a debriefing, (5C1.2) the only other way to get a reduced sentence from a mandatory minimum is to snitch someone off. A 5K1.1 hearing wouldn't work in my case against the other growers because the statute of limitations has already run. 
 
However, Wong actually offerred me 7 years very, very recently (less than a year ago) in where I would have to do a 5K1.1 hearing. They wanted me to do something. I don't know what it was, but I figure I would have had to become some type of informant, and try to infiltrate clubs and help bring them down. I told them to go to hell and Brenda Grantland can confirm that I told them to go to hell. I'd rather do 10 years (not that I ever will because I'm guarateed to go down to 57 months or less on appeal), than get it reduced to 7 years by becoming an informant. I don't appreciate people labeling me as a snitch, when they don't have their facts straight. I don't need to have her spread any more falsehoods, so I would prefer that she doesn't do any more "reporting" on my case. 
 
You can ask Dave Kasakove and Bonnie Metcalf (the 2 that are still alive) if I ever snitched them off in the first 5 years. Since the trial was after the statute of limitations had run, they willingly came to testify to try to help me. People need to get their facts straight before labeling someone as a snitch.
It is subjective...
Written by Tim Castleman, on 2007-09-15 15:15:36
Vanessa wrote: "Did he navigate the waters of the snitch without becoming one himself? It?s a subjective determination, open to various degrees of interpretation depending upon opinion." 
 
I'll say this, I think most people would NOT want their name given to federal prosecutors in connection with your trial, statute of limitations or not.  
 
Again, I am really glad you took the time to state your side, thank you.
Reading Comprehension
Written by Vanessa Nelson, on 2007-09-15 20:29:58
I never wrote or implied that Bryan Epis requested a debriefing hearing. It was not my understanding that he did, and I believe some of the confusion here comes from a characterization of the debriefing hearing as an opportunity to make his say on some of these issues, post-trial. I also did not intend to paint Bryan as a "snitch," as this is not what I believe at all. Some of the tenderness I'm sensing on this issue likely comes from my paragraph that touches on what snitching is and how it's received in the activist community, but I would never call Bryan a snitch. I know about previous testimony regarding Dusek, and about testimony regarding others who were mentioned in connection with the 1997 grow. My point was never that Bryan is a rat, and even though I understand that emotions get high on this issue, critical reading should reveal that I never said this...and I admit that it's dismaying to be accused of it. My opinion, in fact, is the opposite. The point here is that testifying in a manner that characterizes himself as a middleman for this sale was a risky move, as Brenda Grantland has pointed out, even though the risks are diminished by the expiration of the statute of limitations, so that the main concerns were how these admissions would impact the sentencing proceedings. I wrote this report because of the high significance of (and public interest in) the action of testifying in federal court on admissions of activities the federal government considers illegal. Offending was not my intention.
Written by Peter Gabriel Keyes, on 2007-09-15 21:53:03
Some analogies come to mind. One about glass houses. Another about an emperor and his clothes.  
 
Some lessons to be learned from this trial are - watch what you say, and especially watch what you write down, for it may come back to bite you later. 
 
We want the best for you, Bryan. We hope you are able to stay out. I personally think Wong is a big jerk, and hope the court of appeals is as dismayed about the spectre of prosecutorial misconduct in this case as I am.  
 
Despite Judge Damrell's blatherings, you are a celebrity. You will be covered by the media, and you do not get to pick and choose who covers you.  
 
Having said that, it is surprising to me that you would lash out at a journalist who so obviously supports your cause, and is sympathetic to your case.  
 
It seems one of your main concerns is being called a snitch. Nobody called you a snitch, Bryan! I commend you on NOT snitching when Wong wanted you to, and accepting hard time as a result.  
 
Vanessa is currently hard at work writing her in-depth report on your sentencing hearing. In my opinion, you are fortunate to have your case covered by such a talented, dedicated, pro-medical marijuana writer.  
 
You made an excellent speech yesterday, Bryan. I look forward to reading Vanessa's always engaging coverage of it.
stop reporting on me
Written by Bryan Epis, on 2007-09-19 00:16:34
I prefer to not have any more "reporting" done by any of you. I know you won't listen and will do as you please. But if you see me, do not approach me, all 3 of you. All these people actually testified to the same thing i said at the "snitch" hearing. I guess you could say they snitched themselves. The problem is you didn't bother to read the trial transcripts, so you don't know what you're talking about.
Let\'s Be Reasonable
Written by Vanessa Nelson, on 2007-09-21 03:03:35
The bottom line is this: as a community, I think it's important that whenever one of our own gets up on the stand and gives testimony about the illegal activity of others, we need to look at it critically and make decisions about the consequences. Bryan reacting with such insults and scorn to discourage that process is highly suspect. I would like to address his concerns, but I'm just not sure what Bryan is talking about most of the time. I never said he snitched. I never said he called for a debriefing. I never said that he participated in the kind of debriefing designed to give him leniency by testifying during the prosecutions of others. I never said that Bryan was testifying as a prosecution witness, so I don't know why he's throwing all these links around. Furthermore, the testimony he gave about Dusek at trial differed a great deal from what he said at the evidentiary hearing, so I don't know what justification he's using to criticize my research so insultingly.  
 
In no way do I fault Bryan for what he did on the stand, so long as Dusek gave it the go-ahead. In my view, the general rule is no snitching. There are exceptions to every rule, however, and so there certainly are exceptions to the snitching rule. Informed consent is one of those exceptions, when the risks have been weighed carefully and both sides agree on the way to proceed. So, yes -- I feel strongly against it for nearly all circumstances, but it's not always wrong to take the stand and testify. In my conception, I certainly gave Bryan the benefit of any doubt and assumed Dusek had given permission for him to do this. Even in the instance where these activities are something Dusek freely admits to, even under oath, it's still quite a different thing to have someone else giving additional first-hand testimony about them. (Sure, there's a statute of limitations, but you can never tell what the feds will be able to pull to get around it. I have seen them do some things I never would have predicted, the latest of which is the cumulative plant count maneuver in Fry/Schafer.)  
 
I posed a question in that article, and a reasonable one too. In my approach, I even leaned heavily in favor of Bryan. In an ideal world, Bryan would openly give an answer rather than punishing and insulting the asking of question. For, you see, that question is an important one for the community to be asking itself, for all the reasons I spoke of above, and to discourage it so fiercely is at best, counter-productive, and at worst, extremely suspicious.
Once again the facts are wrong (well the
Written by Bryan Epis, on 2007-09-21 17:21:24
Everyone I've showed the article to has seen it the way I do. The way I heard about it was that Dale Gerringer forwarded it to my attorney, Brenda Grantland. He was concerned about the article because he knew Vanessa didn't have her facts straight. You want to know what she said in her voice message? This is her EXACT message: "Bryan, this is Brenda, ah Dale Gerringer called me and ah, told me that Vaneesa has published this story, and he sent me an e-mail, and I just forwarded to you, it looks totally like she's some kind of informant making up shit. Anyway I just wanted to you to take a look at it. I forwarded it to you a minute ago in my e-mail. Talk to you later, bye." I WOULD AGREE WITH MY ATTORNEY'S ASSESSMENT.  
 
Dave (the guy that upon a "subjective determination open to varying degrees of interpretation") I snitched on, told me that his lawyer, Bill Panzer told him that he didn't feel that Dave needed to respond to such "lame nonsense", and that my responses to this nonsense were awesome, and clarified the misinformation(all in Dave's words not Bill's). But if you want to talk to Dave, he said he would be glad to give anyone who would actually listen to this nonsense a piece of his mind about the article. Dave heard about the aritcle from a probation officer who he's known since he was 8 years old. She called him and told him that he better watch out for me, because she read the story and came to the conclusion that I snitched him off at the hearing. Dave laughed at that because he knOWS the truth is the antithesis of what Vanessa writes. 
 
This article is slanted towards the government in so many ways. You call my objection to Exhibit 27, (lying by prosecutors by saying that it was a blueprint for growing in my basement, when it instead was part of a silicon valley proposal) "nitpicking". That lying got me an additional 5 years! But Vanessa sides with Wong. It all goes to what Brenda said.  
 
Vanessa listens only to Wong once again when she says my testimony on Dusek was different at the evidentiary hearing than at trial. She wasn't at my trial. What Wong put up on the film screen were the 2nd and 3rd pages of the testimony on Dusek. If she had bothered to read the first page, the first thing I said was. "I don't know. He must have because his fingerprints were on the mylar". Everything I said afterwards has to be taken in the context of the first thing I said, that I didn't know if he had helped me hang it, because he wasn't one of the five people growing there. I said the same thing at the evidentiary hearing. The rest of the testimony at trail I thought that I was speaking hypothetically, that IF HE DID put up mylar, then I would have paid him with money, NOT that it actually happend. But again that is what happens when someone doesn't read the whole trial transcrpt and only listens to Wong without getting the facts straight. Once again libel has occurred.
Please read the whole sentence...
Written by Vanessa Nelson, on 2007-09-21 18:02:08
Again, I urge reading comprehension. I never said that anything in this case was "nit-picking" -- on the contrary, I explained that it is NOT that way. The exact sentence Bryan refers to is: "It sounds like nit-picking, but the question of what applied to Chico has been a crucial issue that has stood to affect his sentencing." If readers need more help understanding that sentence, I urge an emphasis on the word "but" and how this affects the meaning of the sentence. Really, this is getting ridiculous. Please read the article critically rather than merely reacting. And if an attorney has said that this is "lame nonsense" and "not worth responding to," I am sure those phrases refer to the fuss around a libel claim, for it is completely baseless. Yes, the trial testimony had many contradictions, which was my point exactly, and if Bryan says the reason for this was that he believed he was speaking hypothetically, then my heart goes out to him, for it has had dire consequences. I guess the lesson in this is to pay close attention to the meaning of words, which is what I have urged in these responses all along.
Getting the facts straight...
Written by Tim Castleman, on 2007-09-22 12:57:27
Bryan, once again you are the one that has got it wrong. I have investigated your claims and found them without merit. Your private email threats and vulgarity are inexcusable. You owe Vanessa an apology.
Setting the record straight
Written by Brenda Grantland, on 2007-09-23 16:28:19
Tim & Vanessa - 
 
Thanks for the photo, Tim. And thanks for pointing out to me that I mistakenly thought that you had taken down or edited the inflammatory article that set Bryan off. When I sent you my preliminary correction about the spreadsheet not being one of the things that was destroyed, I didn't take the time to address all of the inaccuracies because I knew Bryan was going to write you about it, and I was too exhausted from the sentencing to deal with it at the time. I thought this all would have been straightened out by now.  
 
I agree with Bryan that the article is still dangerously inflammatory and unfair. First it suggests Bryan was a snitch, which he is not. Vanessa protests in your comment section that "I would never call Bryan a snitch" and "My point was never that Bryan is a rat." Yet the article still suggests that Bryan was secretly snitching: "bereft of media coverage... there are more questions than answers about what's going on in the Epis case." "Did he navigate the waters of the snitch without becoming one himself? It's a subjective determination, open to various degrees of interpretation depending on opinion. Public reaction is likely to be mixed..." And then there's the subtitle: "some names given, some withheld." To me, and probably to most others who know nothing about this case except what they read in the paper and blogs, this suggests that the reason we were not inviting medical marijuana activists and journalists to come to the hearings and generate publicity was because Bryan was snitching. That was certainly not the case. In fact, after the government destroyed all the evidence (in response to our request to view it all, looking for additional evidence to prove the cops knowingly put on false testimony at trial) Wong offered Epis a plea deal that would avoid the mandatory minimum if he would turn snitch -- that is, give information on people who were presently involved in growing or distributing medical marijuana so the federal government could prosecute them. Bryan emphatically rejected that offer. 
 
Do you want to know why we stopped encouraging media coverage or a big turnout of medical marijuana activists at Bryan's hearings? Because it was hurting more than it helped. I discovered having activists in the audience inflamed Damrell and distracted him from our legal arguments. One day when the hearing had gotten postponed on short notice and we hadn't had time to tell Bryan's supporters, Damrell actually listened to me with what appeared to be an open mind. He made some rulings in our favor. He showed his outrage at the government having destroyed all the evidence. That was a major switch. It occurred to me that Bryan had a better audience from Judge Damrell when the crowds were not there, so we stopped inviting people. And it worked. During that period were actually making progress on the prosecutorial misconduct and destruction of evidence issues. Judge Damrell paid attention to our legal arguments and did not act angry toward us or try to shut me up. We even made great progress at the evidentiary hearing when I had the two cops on the stand, even though there were activists in the courtroom. But this last hearing had a turnout of activists on both sides, with the prosection turning out their star medical marijuana prosecutors and it was the drug war all over again. Judge Damrell had to show which side he was on. He overtly expressed his dislike of Bryan's having supporters in the audience and made angry and disparaging comments about Bryan not being a hero. Damrell hates it that Bryan has supporters who see this as a political cause. Bryan and I were not there to put on a media show, but to try to get Bryan a fair sentence and to make a record for overturning his conviction on appeal. So, as well-meaning as it is, even "positive" publicity from the medical marijuana movement does not help Bryan's cause. 
 
One more point about the unfounded snitch accusations. Your statement in your blog on 9/15, that "I think most people would NOT want their name given to federal prosecutors in connection with your trial, statute of limitations or not" is true, but misguided. Let's look at this in terms of the medical marijuana movement -- the patients who really need medical cannabis and those brave (or foolhardy souls) who are growing, distributing or acquiring medical marijuana for them -- legally under state law, but illegally (now) under Raich. The feds come in and pick off one or two people who are together growing with or providing for several other patients. What happens then? Usually, the ones who don't get busted disappear into the woodwork. They find another source of supply and leave their former "compassionate caregiver" to hang by himself. They don't come forward to support them with their testimony because to do so would subject them to criminal prosecution. So the one who happened to get busted goes down looking like the people who disappeared into the woodwork never existed. It's no longer a medical marijuana collective but a "commercial grow" in the minds of the prosecution and judge, because the defense didn't prove otherwise. I see this happen all the time. Bryan was fortunate because his case went to trial after the statute of limitations had run on his codefendants, and he was able to get David Kasakove and Bonnie Metcalf to testify. Were they nervous and uncomfortable about admitting this on the stand? Of course. Would they have preferred not to have their names given to federal prosecutors in connection with Bryan's trial? Yes, but what a minor imposition this was on them in contrast to suffering over 2 years of incarceration in federal prison -- and facing the balance of a ten year sentence -- as the only one punished for this conduct. 
 
This is something I want to say to the entire medical marijuana movement, and not just the movement journalists who promote it. If you are going to continue doing something, and encouraging others to do something that is still illegal in the eyes of the federal government, get some perspective here! What happened to Bryan can happen to you. When the feds pick you off for persecution, are your patients that you are serving as caregiver for going to desert you and let you go to prison alone, and then turn on you when after no possible punishment could come to them from being named, you truthfully tell who you were acting as compassionate caregiver for, in order to qualify for the measly safety valve (which just brings your sentence down by a few years?) 
 
The other bone I have to pick with this article is that it poo-poos the prosecutorial misconduct. In the interest of appearing to be fair and unbiased to the government, you pulled a Fox. Look at this sentence: "By presenting only small portions of each spreadsheet, the defense maintains, prosecutors intentionally misconstrued which documents applied to which locations." What a nice little Fox spin you put on what I was saying. No wonder you were able to say "it sounds like nit-picking." That would be nitpicking if that is what we were saying. I know you came into this case long after the trial, so you weren't there to see the outrageous claims that Wong made at trial, based on what you call "only small portions of each spreadsheet." Wong claimed in opening statement that Bryan actually expected to make $1.8 million dollars a week by January 1998 from his marijuana cultivation. Actually the document Wong based these outrageous claims on was not "small portions of each spreadsheet" as you claim -- but one spreadsheet, taken out of a completely irrelevant draft document which Bryan never finished drafting, because he abandoned the idea of starting a legal medical cannabis dispensary in Silicon Valley -- before making the first step toward implementing it. There was only one spreadsheet, with one set of data, in all of the documents the government seized from Bryan's home and computer, and that spreadsheet was an Excel spreadsheet which Bryan imported into the word processing document - the rough draft of the Silicon Valley proposal. (So it existed in two forms on his computer -- an Excel spreadsheet and an insertion in a word processing document -- but it was all the same thing.)  
 
I believe both of you were there at the hearings. I know this is hard to follow if you haven't seen the documents we are talking about, but your whole coverage of this issue in this article is completely wrong. First -- "By presenting only small portions of each spreadsheet, the defense maintains, prosecutors intentionally misconstrued which documents applied to which locations." You claim we say "prosecutors intentionally misconstrued which documents applied to which locations." No, the figures in these spreadsheets do not apply to any locations. As I have quite emphatically claimed for years, including in our appellate briefs and oral argument, that the cops took the irrelevant spreadsheet, with the ridiculous numbers that double ever month, from the draft Silicon Valley proposal, and testified at trial that it was the actual figures that Bryan made or expected to make in his Chico grow. This spreadsheet and its figures NEVER applied to any location anywhere. The cops and Wong did not intentionally misconstrue -- they flat out lied about it. You were there at the hearings. Didn't you hear Mancini admit that they never checked to see if Bryan filed the proposed articles of incorporation that were in the draft Silicon Valley proposal? Or his testimony that they had no evidence that the Silicon Valley plan was ever implemented? Or that he didn't see any reason to check to see if any steps were taken to implement the draft Silicon Valley proposal, because it didn't matter to him? It didn't matter to Mancini because any idea Bryan had to get a license to open a dispensary in Silicon Valley would be irrelevant (if not detrimental) to their prosecution of Epis for his grow in Chico. Taken out of context it made "the most damaging evidence against Bryan" -- according to Wong's opening statement. Knowing these figures were from the draft Silicon Valley proposal, the cops falsely testified these figures prove Bryan was intending to make $1.8 million per week in his Chico grow. And, by keeping the Silicon Valley proposal itself out of the evidence, they could suggest that Bryan was selling some of the marijuana represented in these outrageous figures at the other dispensaries -- dispensaries the cops knew were never set up. 
 
Another completely incorrect statement: "According to Epis, the documents were like a mathematical contemplation of starting grows elsewhere in California -- Silicon Valley and Newhall, specifically." You sat through the hearings -- I don't see how you could have misunderstood that so badly. The spreadsheet had nothing to do with starting grows elsewhere in California. The spreadsheet appeared nowhere else except in the draft Silicon Valley proposal. (The Newhall proposal was just a draft proposal Bryan created for a friend of his who was considering opening a dispensary in Newhall. Bryan just took the draft Silicon Valley proposal and deleted everything but the bare bones, then put in some stuff about his friend. Nowhere in the Newhall proposal is there any suggestion that Bryan intended to participate in that organization.) 
 
Neither the Newhall or Silicon Valley draft proposals had anything to do with starting a grow anywhere. These were draft plans for opening a legal dispensary. Bryan heard that the San Jose city council had passed regulations to implement Proposition 215, and went in to talk to the police liaison about it. The police liaison gave him the regulations and told him that to get a permit to open a legal dispensary in San Jose, he would need to write up a proposal and submit it to the San Jose City Council. That is why Bryan started drafting this document in the first place. The proposal would have to include a business plan, marketing plan, draft articles of incorporation, sample legal forms, etc. Bryan started putting together these documents all in one word processing document, and set up a sample spreadsheet that could be incorporated which would show the budget, costs, expenses, expected profit, etc. He used Microsoft Excel to create the spreadsheet. Just to test out the spreadsheet and see if it would import into the word processing document, Bryan filled it with randomly created figures he pulled out of the blue one day. They weren't intended to be accurate at all. He was just in the first draft stage and didn't expect anyone to ever see this document. So he just filled it full of random figures that had nothing to do with any attempt to guess what the expenses and income from such a dispensary would be. He put arithmetical formulas in the spreadsheet so that when you plug a figure in the first field, it recomputes the arithmetic for other fields. Putting actual test figures in the spreadsheet is necessary to test to make sure the arithmetical formulas in the spreadsheet are correct. (One of the reasons we asked to see the backup of Bryan's hard drive which the government had made after the search is we believed the cops might have played with that spreadsheet while they were playing with Bryan's computer. The cops may have made these figures double monthly. We asked to see the evidence, Wong stalled for several weeks and then claimed the evidence had all been destroyed. Everything except the evidence the government wanted to keep. As far as Wong's statement that it had been mistakenly destroyed -- if you read the transcripts and motions filed by both sides, you'll see that the government came up with four separate bizarre claims on how the dog ate the homework. All of these claims are so preposterous that if Judge Damrell hadn't suddenly decided he couldn't give us an evidentiary hearing on the destruction of evidence, we would have proven by now that Wong and the two cops made the evidence disappear to cover up the rest of their misconduct.) 
 
Another Fox spin: "If Epis had meant for the spreadsheets to apply to Chico, which was never solidly shown, it was no more than an overly optimistic daydream." You surely went out of your way to support Wong with this claim! There was never any evidence that the spreadsheet pertained to Chico. At the hearing, all Wong could point to was (1) the starting date in the spreadsheet was around the time the Chico club opened (in fact it was a week or two later), and (2) the starting number of members was 20, the same number that the Chico club started out with. But, look at the escalating numbers in this ridiculous data and you'll see that in 10 days the membership jumped to 200, then doubled every month thereafter, with 100,000 members listed for January 1998. In contrast, the Chico dispensary grew from 20 members in March 1997 to 40 members by the end of June 1997.  
 
You were there at the hearing where the cops testified. Certainly you heard the judge say, over and over, that "this has nothing to do with Chico." If you missed it, it's in the transcript - he goes on for several pages in the transcript. This was not an "overly optimistic daydream" as you portray it -- it was purely random numbers that had nothing to do with anything, that Bryan plugged into the Silicon Valley proposal spreadsheet just to test the spreadsheet formulas to make sure they were working. If he had followed through on the SVCC proposal, he would have put real projected figures in it when he got to that stage in the drafting. There was no reason to because he abandoned the plan without even finishing the first draft. 
 
So no, the spreadsheets did not "emerge from ancient history with a new significance" as you claim. They've been front and center of our case ever since the trial. Tony Sera tried to introduce the Silicon Valley proposal at trial to show that the cops lied and Wong lied when they portrayed these ridiculous figures from the spreadsheet as proof of what Epis intended to grow in Chico. The judge would not let it in, because it talked about medical marijuana -- even though in its absence the jury had no context to show them that the figures were taken out of context. That was one of our key issues on appeal, and one that the panel was very emphatic about at oral argument. They made the unprecedented move of remanding the case mid-appeal for resentencing, and letting Bryan out on bail just a few weeks later.  
I know this is a very complicated evidentiary case, and the issue here isn't the typical issue of the jury being deprived of hearing evidence of medical marijuana. (Wong was allowed to introduce evidence about the medical marijuana, he just negated it by this fake evidence that he claims showed Bryan was in it for profit.) But I think what happened in this case is far worse than any other medical marijuana persecution, because the cops and prosecutor subverted the system and obstructed justice by creating fake evidence out of something they knew to be irrelevant. 
 
If you want to write something deep and bold and controversial, write about the way the prosecution denied Epis a fair trial. Don't try to stir up a fake controversy about whether Bryan snitched or not. 
 
Brenda Grantland
My attorney lays your fallacies to rest
Written by Bryan Epis, on 2007-09-23 18:31:22
This is in response to "Bryan, once again you are the one that has got it wrong. I have investigated your claims and found them without merit. Your private email threats and vulgarity are inexcusable. You owe Vanessa an apology." 
 
Tim, I already know that you are Peter's and Vanessa's cronie. If they told you to jump off a bridge, you wouldn't hesitate for a millisecond. I've already heard it from people in Sacramento who you are and where you stand, so you're not fooling me about your so-called investigation, They know who you really are. I didn't believe it at first. I was naive, but now I know too. You all thrive on worming your way in, and then disrupting, and dividing people who are legitimate. Read my attorney's last response. She sets the record straight. Her command of the English language is superior to any of yours, so obviously you won't be able to respond with anything meaningful. You'll probably come back saying she's physically threatened all of you as well! 
 
I didn't threaten anyone. All I said to Vanessa is that if she called the people that "upon a subjective determination" I snitched on, that they would tell her off like she DESERVES. One of the things Dave said was is that if Vanessa called him, he would "tear her a new one". That is with words, DUH, not physically, DUH, but it is interesting how you all like to convolute the truth to provoke more controversy. Bonnie interestingly, and independently, and without knowledge of what Dave said, "It's pretty f*&cked up. I'm going to ream her if she calls me" (almost the same language). That is with words, DUH. Apparently telling Vanessa the truth, that she is a despicable one-sided so-called representative of the "media", is transformed into a physical threat. Yes to someone who can't think, but who responds irrelevantly. These are the people I (upon a subjective determination) snitched on. So why does she not want to talk to them now? Because none of you care what the truth is, but only how you can appease the people who pay you. I dare (oh another "physical" threat) any of you to talk to them. Why don't you introduce yourselves, and give a full background of who you are so you can say you're not up to your usual distorting of the truth. At least Bonnie will be at the Norml convention. Dave wants to go too. Go up to them and tell them who you are (since you all refuse to call them). They'll let you "have it" (with words, DUH, but the truth to you is all of a sudden convoluted into a physical threat). Apparently to all of you, telling you all the truth, that you're all pathetic liars who can't write as a real reporter does, is a "threat." Of course Vanessa won't talk to the people I (subjectively) snitched on. You guys don't want the truth to be told. If you could think, instead of talk out of you know where, (oh another threat) you could respond with relevance. 
 
I've asked my attorney to not talk with any of you from now on with regard to my case, at least after this shirade is over. I've instructed you three to stay away from me, and to stay away from any further hearings of mine, and to not approach me if you see me. If you are on the side of medical marijuana activists, and not the other side, then none of you will come to the hearing on October 22nd. We'll see where you stand at that time.  
 
Bryan Epis  
 
 
 
You
one thing to clarify
Written by Bryan Epis, on 2007-09-23 18:42:03
The only thing I wrote in all my replies so far was that I later found to be inaccurate was the part about Dale Gieringer (sorry I spelled his name wrong earlier) mentioned this "story" to my attorney because he "knew facts Vanessa didn't have her facts straight". I just assumed this from the original voice mail I got." Dale didn't say this to her. He just pointed out that there was a story written about me on this site. But there are two recent stories. Did he see this one, or the other one about my resentencing? That I don't know as of this time.
Dispute Out of Hand - Grantland
Written by Peter Gabriel Keyes, on 2007-09-23 19:33:16
Hello again, Bryan, 
 
Calling Vanessa, "despicable," is not productive. Ad hominem personal attacks are discouraged on most forums, these included.  
 
Court reporting is what we do. 501 I Street is a Building for the People of the United States of America. You may not tell us we cannot go there. 
 
I still wish the best for you, Bryan, despite these escalating personal attacks.  
 
"This dispute has already gotten too far out of hand. We need to call a halt to it right now." - Brenda Grantland
Speaking of clarity...
Written by Tim Castleman, on 2007-09-23 19:53:23
For clarity, following is the letter I sent to Brenda and to which she responded in the comment above. 
 
Dear Brenda, 
 
My name is Tim Castleman, I am the author of the email you responded to. Let me begin by expressing my admiration of your outstanding defense of Bryan. I have attached a picture of you that I took when we went to lunch, Vanessa said it was a good shot and perhaps it will be useful to you. 
 
I have responded to your note below, inline. 
 
On 9/22/07, Brenda Grantland wrote: 
 
>> Vanessa & Bryan - 
 
>> This dispute has already gotten too far out of hand. We need to call a halt to it right now. 
 
These are both excellent points, I wholeheartedly agree. 
 
>> I just read over your article today and it's fine the way you have edited it. Thanks for quickly correcting it. 
 
I don't know which article you read, but the one about his sentencing hearing titled: "Bryan Epis Given 10-Year Sentence Once Again" is NOT the article in question and it is NOT an edited version of it either. The article Bryan has posted his comments on is titled "Epis Testifies On Marijuana Sale: Some names given, some withheld" and it is still published here: ( http://www.medicalmarijuanaofamerica.com/content/view/144/114/) 
 
As far as I know the only editing that has been done relates to the spreadsheet evidence, as you requested. If there are any factual errors, please help me discover them. 
 
>> I hope you understand why Bryan was so upset about language in an earlier version of the article suggesting that he snitched out others. A number of years ago Todd McCormick falsely accused Lynn and Judy Osburn of snitching him out, and because of the publishing power of the internet, those harmful statements caused a lot of damage to their reputations. Once a rumor like that gets into the rumor mill it can never be retracted. 
 
Thank you for for this astute observation and for sharing my feeling on this important issue. We are definitely on the same page about the damage that can be associated with even unfounded accusations. Due to his stature in the medical cannabis community, we are especially concerned by the bold accusations made by Bryan. We can agree that it is easy to see how outright accusations of working for the government and aiding the prosecution is damaging to our reputation.  
 
>> We can't stop you from reporting on Bryan's case but we really hope that in the future you will try harder to be accurate before publishing the story. If you have any questions or uncertainties, ask me first.  
 
We have a strong dedication to the truth and we are always delighted to work with you to insure the facts are presented in the best possible light, we are grateful for your help. 
 
>> Also, just to set the record straight, Dale Gieringer did not make any comment at all about your article when he called me. He just asked me if I had seen it, and forwarded it to me.  
 
Thank you for confirming this about Dale, and please note that it is Bryan who brought this inaccuracy to the open forum in his comments on the website. I sincerely hope he will set the record straight just as publicly as he marred it. 
 
>> When I read it I realized that you had just set in motion some ugly fodder for the rumor mill -- whether you meant to or not -- and I immediately called Bryan so that he could take a look at it.  
 
The purpose of Vanessa's legitimate, thought provoking question about Bryan's testimony in federal court is to stimulate an important discussion in the medical cannabis community exploring what exactly constitutes "snitching".  
 
It is our position that this is much more than 'ugly fodder for the rumor mill'. We strongly believe that this timely, relevant discussion helps to fulfill our mission to educate patients and caregivers to help them avoid prosecution and stay out of jail. 
 
>> I am very sorry that Dale got pulled into this because he had nothing to do with it. 
 
Thank you, I agree and it is very unfortunate Bryan's comments have hurt so many good people that do so much good for the medical marijuana community. I look forward to your leadership and guidance to help mitigate the damage while also allowing Bryan to save face. 
 
Sincerely, 
Tim Castleman 
MMA Administrator
No comment to Grantland\'s last commen
Written by Bryan Epis, on 2007-09-23 23:06:52
I noticed that Tim hasn't reponded to Brenda's last comment. Her last comment was after actually reading this outrageously poor story. The one Tim just responded to, was Brenda commenting on the Resentencing story, NOT this story. I have a feeling that Dale looked at just the resentencing story as well, and not this story. 
 
There is no valid reply to Brenda's last commentary, as it sets the record straight. 
 
Simply put, it is you who are damaging and dividing, by paying people to write propaganda.
Thanks Brenda
Written by Peter Gabriel Keyes, on 2007-09-24 04:52:39
Hi Brenda, 
 
Thank you for your comments. We will review them meticulously, and will gladly make any clarifications where it is called for. I am very sorry that you consider the piece to be, "dangerously inflammatory and unfair." We seek to be fair, and I personally, and respectfully disagree that the writing is dangerously inflammatory. An unbiased reader commented, "It sounds like Vanessa tentatively concluded Bryan did not cross the line."  
 
It appears as if you and Bryan are suggesting that it is wrong to say that Bryan even did anything remotely resembling snitching - presumably because of the emotional nature of the word "snitch." We have repeated over and over, WE ARE NOT CALLING BRYAN EPIS A SNITCH! Please allow me to direct your attention to the END of Vanessa's sentence, "Public reaction is likely to be mixed, but it certainly makes a great deal of difference that the statute of limitations has already passed on these crimes." Isn't that the defense's position that exonerates Bryan? 
 
We are well aware of your theory that an empty courtroom is more beneficial to Bryan's case than one containing medical marijuana advocates. You believe that Judge Damrell punishes Bryan with harsher rulings when there is a crowd gathered to witness the proceedings. I do not recall when Judge Damrell, "overtly expressed his dislike of Bryan's having supporters in the audience," as you state. Could you please direct me to the Judge's statements that disparage Bryan's supporters in the courtroom?  
 
Drug War Chronicle sent out a special announcement prior to Bryan's sentencing hearing, urging advocates to attend the hearing. Was this done against the wishes of Bryan's defense? If you honestly wanted people not to come, many folks clearly did not get the message. 
 
You say, "Bryan and I were not there to put on a media show.." and I think I know what you mean by that. But, then again, Bryan courted media with his flamboyant speech. Many of his statements seemed targeted more towards the News & Review than the 9th circuit. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I believe that Vanessa is the only reporter that covered all of Bryan's speech, not just a small portion of it. 
 
I'm sorry you view Vanessa's reporting as, "poo-poo[ing] the prosecutorial misconduct." We know that this case is far from over, and are very excited about your prospects for appeal, based on prosecutorial misconduct. Vanessa reported about what happened at THAT HEARING, and prosecutorial misconduct did not come up much at the hearing in question. As I stated before, we are hopeful that Bryan is able to remain free on bail, pending appeal. Since you have already okay'ed Vanessa's most recent article, I trust that you are satisfied with how Vanessa covered your charges of fake evidence - used by the prosecution - in this case. 
 
When you get into whether there is one spreadsheet or a number of spreadsheets, I think you are getting into marginally relevant semantical issues, when it comes to our readers. Clearly there are multiple COPIES of spreadsheets, and which party - the defense or the prosecution - created and/or manipulated the documents is highly contentious.  
 
You take issue with the statement: "According to Epis, the documents were like a mathematical contemplation of starting grows elsewhere in California -- Silicon Valley and Newhall, specifically." Again it seems semantics are getting in the way, here. Would it be more accurate to switch the word, "grows," with the word, "dispensaries?" 
 
You also dislike the statement, "If Epis had meant for the spreadsheets to apply to Chico, which was never solidly shown, it was no more than an overly optimistic daydream." Considering that the sentence starts with the word, "If," I don't think there's anything you can say that is factually incorrect about that sentence. You say, "This was not an "overly optimistic daydream" as you portray it -- it was purely random numbers that had nothing to do with anything, that Bryan plugged into the Silicon Valley proposal spreadsheet just to test the spreadsheet formulas to make sure they were working." I think this is a very important lesson - don't keep records that can be used against you in court! The presence of the word, "if," properly qualifies the sentence as a "maybe, maybe not" situation. Vanessa points out that the evidence did not prove that the spreadsheet[s] applied to Chico. And Vanessa describes the theoretical situation as, "no more than an overly optimistic daydream..." quite different than, "an overly optimistic daydream." 
 
Thank you for pointing out that Tony Serra attempted, unsuccessfully, to enter the spreadsheet[s] into evidence earlier in the trial. That seems to lend credence to Vanessa's colorful characterization of the spreadsheet[s] as, "emerging from ancient history with a new significance." 
 
I really appreciate you presenting your views, Brenda. You can rest assured that all of your comments will be painstakingly processed, evaluated, and may be incorporated into future reports, and/or revisions of past reports. Thanks again, Brenda.
Inaccuracies or Interpretations?
Written by Vanessa Nelson, on 2007-09-24 15:45:34
I think a crucial problem of understanding here is that this article is about one hearing only. It gives some context as background, but the focus is this particular hearing. If the issue of prosecutorial misconduct got less attention than Brenda would like, this is not an inaccuracy. It is merely a reflection of the fact that this is a focus piece, not a comprehensive article about the case in general. If I write a comprehensive article, the prosecutorial misconduct claims will certainly get detailed treatment. Until then, however, my articles will be reports on specific hearings, as indicated by their titles. 
 
I have never suggested that there is snitching going on in secret, and I think such an interpretation of my article is far-fetched. I made no speculations about whether the defense wanted attendees at the evidentiary or sentencing hearings, so it's puzzling to be accused of this. 
 
It's unclear to me when I acquired an obligation to call Bonnie and Dave, but I nonetheless dispute the relevance of the request. Even though Bryan claims that I said he snitched on these people, Bonnie was never brought up in the article or even alluded to. I have never published an article that connected Bryan and Bonnie in any way. As far as Dave goes, Bryan gave him a passing mention on the stand, but it was nothing more than that. The person whose illegal activities Bryan testified about in this hearing was Keith Dusek, and that's what I reported about. (As such, it seems perfectly accurate to say in a subtitle that some names were brought up and some were not.) If Bryan reads into this anything about Bonnie, it's purely imaginary on his part. The testimony Bryan gave detailed a sale of marijuana between Keith Dusek and Dennis Peron, and this is what I reported on. I stand by that. Of course, if given a statement originating from either of these individuals, I would be happy to include it. Otherwise, I reject the notion that I have some moral or journalistic duty to contact people who were not part of my story simply so that they can "ream me" or "tear me a new one" on behalf of their angry friend. That's a contrived obligation. 
 
I can see that Brenda has a number of issues with language I used in the article, and I am glad she's airing her side of things. However, I do view most of these as style issues.  
 
I refuse to accept that my use of the term "intentionally misconstrued" is somehow less accurate than the word "lied." In fact, I believe my term is stronger and bolder, as it implies intent. Unless it is more effectively demonstrated to me why I should use Brenda's language over my own in this instance, I will keep my term. Her claims are being referenced here, but she is not being directly quoted, and I may use my own characterizations of the language as long as it keeps with the meaning of what was said. In my view, "intentionally misconstrued" and "lied" are close enough to qualify for this kind of usage.  
 
I will also keep the sentence Brenda found so offensive: "If Epis had meant for the spreadsheets to apply to Chico, which was never solidly shown, it was no more than an overly optimistic daydream." I don't know how she is getting a different interpretation from these words, but I am saying here that it was never demonstrated that the spreadsheet(s) applied to Chico. Brenda is making a non-existent argument on this point, based on her misinterpretation. Also, taking issue with a phrase like "no more than an overly optimistic daydream" is a bit absurd. These words could be attributed to Bryan, who has characterized his figures as fantastical, but they could also be my interpretation of the figures. Beyond that, these terms match up perfectly with what the two law enforcement officers (Redmond and Mancini) said on the stand about the exhibit in question. Is it really inaccurate to say that numbers chosen randomly or out of the blue are not part of a daydream? This is getting into the intent aspect of fantasy, and that's far too abstract.  
 
I would urge Brenda to also be more accurate in her wording. Multiple times in her long comment, she outright states that all the evidence was destroyed. This is unusual to me, given that she was quick to ask me to clarify in my article that all of the evidence had NOT been destroyed. I was happy to make that distinction at her request, and now I am puzzled by her characterization once again.  
 
I will also be glad to clarify that there was only one growsite (Chico) and two alleged plans for dispensaries elsewhere (Newhall and Silicon Valley). One problem, I believe, is the word "collective," since it can be used to refer to a grow or to a dispensary. Certainly there could be some confusion there, depending upon how it's interpreted. I will make an effort to be more specific with these distinctions. 
 
The issue of whether the word "spreadsheets" should be plural is also ambiguous. Given that the document in question is over 15 pages, I did always think of them as "sheets." Since there is so much riding on whether there was or was not more than one spreadsheet document, however, I am willing to consider the value of a semantic change. As I understand it, the prosecutor says there is more than one spreadsheet -- the one referred to as the Silicon Valley proposal and the one referred to as the Newhall proposal. The defense says that the Newhall proposal contains a part of the Silicon Valley proposal that was gutted and then fed other figures. Whether these changes make it a new and different spreadsheet is, I believe, a matter of interpretation. As for the issue about "small portions" of the spreadsheets, I was referring to Bryan's claim that the prosecutor extracted and used only one page out of a much longer document. (He referred to it as 17 pages long, and a single page out of these documents is, in my view, a small portion.) 
 
When I refer to spreadsheets emerging from history, what I had in mind was Brenda's unearthing of the full documentation of these exhibits once she came onto the case. I never meant to suggest that spreadsheets were irrelevant to the case up until recently -- of course not, as they played an enormous role in making a case for the conspiracy charge. I believe the rest of my descriptions in the background of the case support and demonstrate this fact. 
 
Finally, I dispute the charge that I have stirred up a fake controversy. I believe these issues need to be addressed by and amongst members of the community. As Brenda indicates, Bonnie and Dave didn't want their names given to federal prosecutors and to be called to testify at trial. Since they suffered less than Bryan, however, Brenda believes that this justifies what these two witnesses went through. Brenda wrote of Bonnie and Dave: "Would they have preferred not to have their names given to federal prosecutors in connection with Bryan's trial? Yes, but what a minor imposition this was on them in contrast to suffering over 2 years of incarceration in federal prison -- and facing the balance of a ten year sentence -- as the only one punished for this conduct." In her view, giving names is justified under certain conditions, and I think that it's important to examine those conditions, as I discussed before in this thread. There's nothing immoral or irresponsible in posing that question, and I found it highly relevant to Epis's recent hearing. That's all.

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